The Brazen Podcast
Brazen is a weekly podcast that aims to help ambitious women question societal norms and make deliberate choices that support their success and fulfillment.
Each episode will cover topics that will help you break free from the mindsets, thoughts, and behaviors holding you back in life and business and embrace your main character energy.
The podcast also brings Calley and Valerie's unique perspectives to the table. Calley is a nurse practitioner, a mother, and runs a business with her husband. Valerie is the CEO of a multi-million dollar company, a business coach for women, and is childfree by choice.
Join us every Tuesday as we explore everything available to us when we brazenly take accountability for our lives.
The Brazen Podcast
Transforming Fear into Power
Ever wondered why you dread conflicts and avoid confrontations? Are you ready to shift from being a people pleaser to a confident, assertive individual who doesn't shy away from difficult discussions? Join us, Kali Hughes and Valerie King-Mowler, as we peel back the layers of our personal experiences, share our current obsessions, and uncover the reasons behind these deeply rooted fears.
From Kali's emotional roller coaster ride of fostering a child to Valerie's newfound passion for vision boards and her current fixation on the Trauma Rewired podcast, we lay it all bare. We discuss how societal conditioning from a young age suppresses assertiveness in women and instills the fear of conflict. But fear not, we're here to empower you with effective strategies to overcome this fear and to navigate complicated conversations. We talk about the importance of feminine leadership in these situations and how embracing positive conflict can actually strengthen relationships. So, buckle up for a journey of introspection, growth, and bold living.
If you enjoyed this show, please share or leave a review. You can also email us directly at hello@brazenwomen.com or send us a message on Instagram.
If you’re interested in monthly group coaching with Calley for just a few dollars a month, check it out here.
If you’re interested in private business or career coaching with Valerie, visit valeriekingmallar.com.
Welcome to Brazen, a weekly podcast where we get down and dirty on how we can live a more bold, curious and vibrant life. We are your hosts Kali Hughes, a self-care coach and nurse practitioner, and Valerie King-Mowler, a business growth and mindset coach. In this podcast, we are helping women stop people pleasing and perfectionism, awaken their inner badass and discover what can happen when we take the lead in our own life. Join us as we explore everything available to us when we brazenly take accountability for our life and well-being. Let's get started.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another episode of the Brazen podcast. So Valerie and I are going to be switching things up a little bit with how we do things. So we really wanted to kind of bring more of a conversational tone into the podcast, and so we're going to be starting the podcast off with some chat and just kind of talking about what we're loving this week which, to be honest, we usually do anyway, before the recording starts. So we're just going to be bringing you guys in on our more personal internal world a little bit more. So, that being said, let us know if you like the change, if you have any thoughts or suggestions on other things that you want to hear our thoughts on. So anyway, how was your week going, val it's going really well.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited about today's topic, but I feel like I'm usually very excited about each of our topics, so how about you?
Speaker 1:Same. I have had a really busy week. So I'm sure most of the listeners don't know, but my husband and I are in the process of getting started with fostering and we're finding that it is a little bit of an emotional roller coaster, or than we expected. So there's just been a lot of back and forth and expecting things and then plans change at the last minute. So that's been my week life. So what are you loving this week?
Speaker 2:So this one is kind of an interesting one because it's something that I have talked to coaching clients about a lot but haven't ever really embraced fully, and that is a vision boards. I am really into the style of vision board that I created for myself pretty recently, like within the last week or so, but I've been really motivated by it and this particular vision board includes, like my goals on it. It has just some like little sort of mini habits I'm trying to embrace and it's just like visually appealing to you, which is really nice, and so I found it really motivating and it's just like great having my goals there every morning to look at and just you know, like I said, in a visually appealing way. So I'm really kind of embracing the vision boards. I have tried them in the past, but I feel like I kind of adhere to different styles that other people had suggested, and this time I was just like nope, I'm going for it, I'm going to create my own version and I love it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So, like, are you kind of taking pictures off the internet or like cutting out of magazines? Like how are you doing it?
Speaker 2:Well, I have like a mini printer, so I've been printing some stuff off Pinterest, which has been really helpful, and then kind of just like creating my own canva images, which actually I think I appreciate it, because I felt like I was spending a lot of time like looking through magazines and being like none of this stuff speaks to me. So this way I got to be little control freak Valerie and create the image that I most wanted to see. So that has been really helpful and I think it also allowed me to and this is definitely a little bit of perfectionism creeping in, but it allowed me to like color coordinated a little more. I love that. Yeah, this just definitely makes me sound like a perfectionist, but it is. I wanted it to be pretty so that I liked having it displayed. So that was my little project for last week.
Speaker 1:You should just call it aesthetically pleasing rather than being a perfectionist.
Speaker 2:Well, we talk about perfectionism a lot, so this is how mine comes out.
Speaker 1:But yes.
Speaker 2:So what are you loving this week?
Speaker 1:So I've been kind of obsessed with this new podcast which has been around for a little while but I just started listening to it and it's called Trauma Rewired and it's these two like neuro experts that talk about different ways that your you know past trauma might be showing up in your current life and different somatic techniques to kind of move through that and, you know, help with your inner healing and like understanding yourself better.
Speaker 1:So it's definitely like you know it's getting my nerdy fix, you know it's learning all about the stuff that's like I don't know. Sometimes it's kind of clinical ish and, like you know, it might be difficult, I guess, for like a lay person possibly to understand all of it in certain episodes, but I've been actually really liking. They're doing a series right now on the four F's, which are the four different trauma responses or fear responses, kind of so fight, flight, breeze and fawn, and so they have an entire episode dedicated to each of them and it's actually really interesting because you can get some really specific examples of like how that might show up for you and what it might stem from and then how to kind of work on healing whatever that issue might be for you. So it's definitely really interesting and right up my alley right now with my current hyper fixation, so I am loving that podcast.
Speaker 2:Do you know which response is typical for you of the four F's?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I am freeze and fawn, which is really interesting because the way they get you kind of develop the freeze response is, you know, like early on in childhood when you learned that you couldn't fight your way out of situations and you couldn't run away from situations. So you kind of it's like the backup response, kind of so. Like you think of like when an animal you know sees a predator that they know that they can't outrun and they know that they can't fight off, they just freeze and hope that the danger like passes them by and doesn't notice. So that's one. And then fawn is kind of more of like a relational response where, like you're trying to, that's where, like the people pleasing comes out and you know, just trying to like appease everybody and like keep everybody happy and just go with the flow, be flexible, like that whole thing. How about you, val, what's your usual go to?
Speaker 2:I think that still remains to be determined by an expert, but I think fight is probably the one that I gravitate to the most. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1:I was gonna guess that yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know what that says about me, but yes, yeah, that does tend to be, I think, my go to version, but yeah, totally Well.
Speaker 1:That kind of segues really nicely into today's topic, which is fear of conflict and how to resolve conflict in a way that feels good for you and for the other party. So let's, I guess, just dive in and I just want to talk about like three different reasons that women in particular might fear conflict or confrontation. So one of the main reasons is that as a society and as a culture, girls are socialized and taught from a very young age, subconsciously most of the time, how to be a quote unquote good girl. And so what that does is it tells these girls that they should try to be nice and be accommodating and it really discourages the confrontation or being argumentative or being assertive in what their needs are. They're kind of labeled as bossy or needy and shamed for those types of behaviors, and so little girls usually learn pretty quickly how to sort of tamp down those parts of themselves and be more of a good girl.
Speaker 1:And later on in life it might lead to feeling guilty for speaking up and sharing your opinion, especially if it's a differing opinion, or feeling ashamed for kind of feeling differently than the rest of the world sometimes, and I feel like that kind of shows up with the excessively apologizing like I'm sorry, have like another idea, or like something like apologizing for having thoughts and opinions. Basically and you know, I think that's one of the biggest and most obvious like I think most people can point to that's like, well, I just don't have experience with healthy conflict, like it was discouraged, and that's kind of it brings me into the second reason. So, like safety concerns, sometimes it can feel really unsafe to share a different opinion or to have a conflict with somebody or to express a boundary that somebody else is not going to like. I think a lot of times for me where my mind goes when I say that is like a grown woman in a date type of a scenario or you know, like being in you know, really masculine, male dominated type of a work environment and just not feeling safe. Being somebody who, like, is assertive and states their opinions and beliefs unapologetically, like that can feel really nerve wracking.
Speaker 1:If you look back at your childhood or you know your formative years was arguing, seeming oppositional or being assertive, was that encouraged or was it discouraged? Like, were your parents and other caregivers encouraging you to disagree with them? Like I think most of the time the majority of us can say no, like I know that I was never encouraged to express differing opinion, or like assert my wants and needs, knowing that it was different from other people. You know in the room or like authority figures or whatever, and so that kind of hardwired this connection in my brain from a really young age that it's not safe to do that you know. And it's not necessarily that it was like physically unsafe, but you know there's like the shaming and there's like the discouraging and saying, oh, don't be like that. Or like you're just being bossy, don't be bossy, nobody likes a bossy girl, those types of things. While it's not like an overt message of them saying don't argue with me although sometimes that is the message I think that it gives us the subconscious message that that is not the way that you need to act if you want to be loved and accepted. Then that brings us into number three.
Speaker 1:So relationship preservation. So this is kind of where the fawn response comes out people pleasing. If we were shamed or discouraged or emotionally or physically harmed for being in conflict with somebody, then not only do we register on a subconscious level that it's not safe, but we also register that if I'm in conflict with somebody it means that there's a break in the relationship. They're maybe going to explode on me and have this big, scary emotional reaction to it, or maybe they're going to give me the silent treatment and just totally act like the relationship is severed and not give me the attention and acceptance and love that I need, speaking as if you were a child in that scenario.
Speaker 1:So you kind of develop this tendency toward people pleasing and prioritizing other people's needs ahead of your own, just to kind of keep from rocking the bow or keep from upsetting people, because you're not even realizing it but you're anticipating that really big reaction like that emotionally immature reaction. So those are some reasons that we might fear getting into conflict with people or having what we think might turn into a confrontational type of a conversation, or where we're expressing a boundary and insinuating that somebody may have crossed our boundary. Those are some reasons that we might be hesitant to do that. So, that being said, I'm sure you probably can identify something in there that resonates with you if you are a person who sort of shies away from conflict. So now Val is going to give you some strategies that are going to help you work on overcoming that and have a productive conflict conversation that feels good.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think the first thing is to kind of address the mindset around the confrontation and conflict. I think sometimes it's obviously like a perceived fear of conflict and confrontation because a lot of times it comes across like in a workplace setting that you need to give someone feedback and that is not necessarily going to be an actual conflict, like you're not having a hard conversation, but I think it's easy to turn that into a fear of any type of feedback is going to lead to some sort of conflict. So I think just kind of also making sure that you're not over exaggerating the potential for conflict. I think just understanding that as a manager, for example, or a leader, if you are giving someone coaching, that's something that you're doing to help them do their job better. So like don't think that by saying, hey, actually this is how we do something, that you're creating conflict with that person. And I think the more you separate that kind of coaching from conflict, the better for yourself as a leader and also for your employees. But a couple of things to keep in mind there are some really good things that come from conflict and the first one is it can be a really good way to grow a relationship. I would say that after the majority of really hard conversations I've had in the past, I've had an even better relationship with either the coworker, the employee, the friend, the partner, whoever it is. And so just knowing that conflict is actually a way if it's done in a healthy way, it can lead to an actual stronger bond with someone not what you were saying where it's gonna sever that bond. So just kind of like looking at conflict in that way. Also, by not saying anything and not voicing your opinion, you're essentially setting yourself up for a bigger explosion later on. So you're not living authentically to yourself, you're not being really honest with yourself and the other person or other people, and so ultimately it's gonna come out in some way, and probably not in a very healthy way. So by engaging in confrontation, slash conflict or just having a hard conversation, you're kind of preemptively avoiding a bigger conflict that does have the potential to ruin a relationship.
Speaker 2:And then kind of the third thing that I always think is important to embrace is the idea that you can fix almost any difficult conversation. So unless it's gone on way too long and there's some sort of unhealthy conflict involved, you can kind of go back and fix an uncomfortable conversation. So if you have a conversation and it goes really poorly, you can always take a breather and come back and kind of just discuss it. And when you're both more regulated and in a better space and so just knowing that like it's not a break, make or break conversation every single time you have one, like you are both adults and hopefully, and you can go back and kind of fix that situation. So those are kind of some mindset things that I try to encourage people to embrace and just understanding the positivity that comes from like conflict and confrontation.
Speaker 2:But a couple of things that you can do when you're in the actual conversation with someone is the first one is to let them speak first. If you get really deep into active listening and this is particularly if you're in a position of power it can really set the tone for the meeting. If you say what's going on for you or what's on your mind or how are things going, or just letting them kind of lead the conversation, and I find that more often than not the topic I need to address gets brought up, which is really helpful, cause then you could be like, yes, actually I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that and they've brought it up, so it's a safer space for them and it gives you something to react to, and particularly if you're a boss, that's a really good thing, because it's kind of letting them sort of steer the conversation but still allowing you to have time to say what you need to. The second thing is to just recognize that you're two people in a room and you're both needing to be a little bit vulnerable in that situation, but also just to really read the room and pay attention to how the person you're talking to is reacting. So if your message is not hitting in the way that you want it to or the way that you intended, you should try to pivot your discussion and you can even be really authentic and say this isn't going how I wanted it to and we're both getting really heated.
Speaker 2:And I'd like to kind of just take a step back, because this is really important to me and it's something that I would really like for both of us to be able to feel like we're being heard, so like let's take a little break, we'll come back and talk about it, and I think there's something really magical in just being able to do that and be really authentic about it instead of just like plowing forward with your message.
Speaker 2:And then I think, finally, my big tip is to just use statements that reflect how you feel or what you observe, not accusatory. I think that's when people are gonna get into their fight or flight kind of mode, when they are feeling attacked from you. So if you wanna have a really healthy conversation, it's saying things like I felt really uncomfortable when you brought that up to me, or I feel like I'm not being heard in this relationship, or I've observed that like when we're talking, I feel like you don't value necessarily what I'm saying, just kind of making it more about your perspective instead of actual fact, and it gives them an opportunity to respond in a healthy way. So those are kind of my major tips for when you are involved in a difficult conversation and ways to kind of make it a little more healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that you talked about just focusing on your perspective, because I think a lot of the conflict resolution advice that's going around is kind of the more masculine approach of just simply stating the facts. Yeah, and I think that really doesn't take into account that everything is seen with bias and so you might see it as a fact, but it's your reality, not necessarily theirs, and so I think that you know that's a really awesome tip to give people and kind of like bringing more of the like feminine edge into leadership, because for so long we've been steeped in the, you know, masculine way of leading where, honestly, like, there's been more research coming out recently showing that women are more effective leaders than men when we're actually leading from an authentic place. So I love that tip.
Speaker 2:And I think that also just paying attention to who your audience is, I do tend to change my communication style, and this is more of a workplace thing, but it can work in your personal relationships. But I get to know the people that I work with and so if I know that they're a very, you know, factual based person, I know that I probably don't need to get super like vulnerable or warm or sugarcoat, I guess, is the key way to say it with them, because they just want to know like they're not going to get emotional. I don't need to sort of you know, cover those different bases and if it's someone that is going to get defensive when I bring something up, I'm like, okay, I need to soften this a little bit. So I think also recognizing who you're talking to can make a huge difference in how you present your message.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good tip too, because I know that sort of back before. I started doing a lot of my own like self reflection and like inner healing and all of that. I hated conflict, like I would never be the person initiating a conflict. But I was also so sensitive to rejection and I felt like any feedback or correction from somebody, especially if it was delivered in like a more detached, factual type of a way, like even realizing it or the other person intending for it to come off as threatening, like it immediately switched me into a fight or flight. So just being aware of you know the fact that just simply having a conversation with somebody like in a position of power or authority over you might already kind of have them in that fight or flight mode, and so really leaning into like the tips that Val shared, like letting them steer the conversation and being open and authentic and vulnerable, like that's going to help them to kind of regulate and realize that they're not actually in danger.
Speaker 1:You might even want to, if you know this person kind of has a predisposition of like getting defensive or being really sensitive to any kind of feedback like maybe lead them in some kind of like a super casual, somatic exercise, like taking some deep breaths together and just be like, okay, let's just like start by taking some deep breaths and by doing it together. It kind of like takes the tension and a little bit of that like power dynamic out of it, because you're both emphasizing, like that said, that you're just two people in a room having a conversation about something. So those are some of my other little bonus tips. Love it. So one of the other new things that we're doing for you guys is giving you some kind of a really concrete action step to implement what we talk about at the end of every podcast episode. So Val's going to give you your challenge for this week.
Speaker 2:So you might guess what it is already, but it is to go out there and have a conversation that you've been dreading, or one that you just keep putting on the back burner because you're nervous about doing it. Take these tips, review them, if you need to write down some thoughts, and kind of go into that conversation with strength but vulnerability and just really try to tackle that this week and I know that you'll feel a lot better having put yourself out there, and it does get easier to so the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what we can do for you guys is we'll type up these tips and action steps and we'll put them in a PDF that you can download and bring with you, because I find that sometimes, just like having a checklist in front of me when I'm like stepping into something that's really uncomfortable, is reassuring and it helps me kind of follow along rather than rely on my own mind in like a stressful situation. So you'll be able to download that PDF by going to the link in the show notes. So check that out and download it, and it will be like a little bit of a security blanket for you when you go into these tough conversations. So that wraps up another episode of the brazen podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Check the show notes and find out how you can support us and download some resources that are going to help you have a great week and be brazen.
Speaker 1:You just finished another episode of the brazen podcast with Callie Hughes and Valerie King-Mallor. We hope that this episode inspired you to take one more small step toward your ideal life. We are so grateful that you're here and we are cheering for you all the way To get more info on how to take the next steps or how to work with us, go to brazenwomencom. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please subscribe and leave a rating and review. You can also support us and help spread the word by becoming a monthly supporter for just $3 a month. Again, thank you for listening. We'll chat soon and in the meantime, keep being brazen.
